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slabs and roofs should be affected by skin priorities

Anonymous
Not applicable
It is possible to assign a composite structure to a floor slab or a roof. Why not make it so roofs and slabs use the skin priorities that are associated with those composites? This would make it much easier to control the intersection between floors, roofs and walls. As it is now, the only way I have figured out how to get the above result is to make a complex profile wall with the sheathing and siding hanging down over the band, which means you are stuck with a seam at each floor level.

wallandslab.JPG
23 REPLIES 23
Anonymous
Not applicable
Ogabson/Laszlo,

I don't think using just the veneer approach will work. Surely enabling the skin 'Wrapping' option would work better on plan? Any skins that the column touchs are automatically wrapped around. Make sure the column is on the same Layer Intersection Number as the wall otherwise this won't work.

If the wrapping still isn't satisfactory, another option could be to use a complex profile for the column. To form the beam you will probably need to use a complex profile anyway.

Try capturing the profile of a dummy column with a veneer, all set up with the correct pens and fills, and edit it in the complex profile manager to correctly turn the core and finish skins. You can then set it for use with beams and columns.

You will have to use a white edge line on the complex profile to hide the join between wall and column. Don't forget to turn off the wall end line also.

Hope that helps!
NandoMogollon
Advocate
Hi.
I've been thinking about this for a while, and still think that a good solution which implicates a big change on the way ArchiCAD works is to apply the priority based modeling.

Let me explain:
Have you seen the way the cut fills priority works on the floorplan for walls?
Well is the same principle applied to solids.
If the elements (walls, slabs, beams, roofs, etc..) has a material (cut fill), it should be doing an "automatic SEO" over the other materials(cut fill).
The same way today a column opens a hole on a wall, or a beam subtracts the slabs. But not between element types, between materials:
If you have, let say, brick, concrete, plaster, gypsum, you should be able to set the priorities on the materials, not just for each single object.

In the picture, there is a section with two walls and a slab, both with composites, and SEO to perform the actual view. The same thing could be done if material priorities could do SEOs.

Regards

Nando
Nando Mogollon
Director @ BuilDigital
nando@buildigital.com.au
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Laszlo Nagy
Community Admin
Community Admin
This Skin Priority-based 3D intersection is a very good idea. I encounter this problem quite often. Do you care to make a wish?

Meanwhile, there are two articles on Archicadwiki related to this:

http://www.archicadwiki.com/TechNotes/Wall-Slab%20Intersections

http://www.archicadwiki.com/TechNotes/How%20to%20Model%20Related%20Walls%20and%20Slabs
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Anonymous
Not applicable
Along with replacing the section outlines between dissimilar fills with separator lines, this would go a very long way toward fully automating the model to drawing process (the holy grail of model the building and annotate the views).
Anonymous
Not applicable
I do not see this as a big problem.

If you are modeling your building as you should, the structural slab should be separated from the floor and ceiling finishes.

For instance, if the structural model comes from the engineer, then you don't want the finishes coming with it too.

The section attached shows exactly that: Slab is structural, in it's own layer, SEOed onto the exterior wall. Or incorporating a beam, thus dispensing the SEO altogether.

Floor finishes come on a separate slab, allowing different finishes for different compartments.

Ceiling finishes the same, all on different layers, that show or hide depending on which drawing/schedule you want.

No drama.
Laszlo Nagy
Community Admin
Community Admin
I would like to argue a little bit.
The case you show in your attachment is simple. But not all cases are like that.
Also, as you said you already have to use two Slabs: one for the structure, one for the stuff above it. Now that we have Partial Structure Display in AC12, it would be even more self-evident to model the thing using only one Slab, and let Skin Priorities do the rest.

Another thing is: let us suppose that your Slab above the structure in your image is not like that. What if the two lowest skins need to extend through the plaster at the inner side of the Wall, but the other skins of the same Composite structure need to be "weaker" than the Plaster of the Wall. Then we again have problems.
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Anonymous
Not applicable
Laszlo

You are right, of course.
And also, wrong...

The complexity of some solutions tends to demand skin control.

On the other hand, the example that was being discussed here is similar to the one I posted, and on that instance, and if you are really doing things as you should, the structural slab comes from the engineer, you should not model it.

Thus, having the structure as an external module, that links to the file send by the structural engineer (the only way you can be sure that your model is ok and updated), you really do not want anything else modeled on that slab.My structural engineer does not know what finishes I am using, as it does not pertain to the structure. These are separate issues that should be modeled separately.

All the finishes have to be build on a different slab, preferably also on a different layer.

Unless you are also modeling the structure, on which case you have far bigger problems than skin priority... 😉
Laszlo Nagy
Community Admin
Community Admin
Yes, we are modeling the structure because our structural consultant is giving us only 2D DWG files.
Also, the first time we really get any important and useful geometry data from the structural engineer is in the Construction Documentation phase. So we must model the structure in earlier phases. That is how it goes here in Hungary. Up to the end of the Design Development phase the structural engineer only does certain rough calculations and write some technical stuff. I guess this is why we are taught so much structural stuff at our University: because we need it.

But I see what you mean, you were talking about the case being discussed, while I was talking more generally.
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Anonymous
Not applicable
I was also talking about my general work.

I understand standards and work flows and expertize vary greatly from country to country.

On the other hand, I would expect that, on most cases and in most countries, recieving the structural model from the engineer is something that we should strife for.

It is the way to go, because there is really no alternative. Being responsible for the structural model (and the MEP) is something that just does not make any sense, and puts us architects in a unsustainable position.

My point being:
Control over the slab skin priority is of some importance, but not as much as you would believe, especially if the structural model is done separately.
Laszlo Nagy
Community Admin
Community Admin
OK, I get your point.
Loving Archicad since 1995 - Find Archicad Tips at x.com/laszlonagy
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