Project data & BIM
About BIM-based management of attributes, schedules, templates, favorites, hotlinks, projects in general, quality assurance, etc.

Layers

Anonymous
Not applicable
We are having some debate in our office as to the level of complexity of our layering system (the number of layers). We are quite a large practice and multi disciplinary and so our layering system has increased to over two hundred layers. Is this unnecessary? Should we simplify and how?
Thanks in advance.
DF
27 REPLIES 27
Thomas Holm
Booster
I see what you mean, JP. And I realise that a layer-coloring display option, for TEMPORARY use, to see what layer items belong to, would be a benefit in certain circumstances. (And of course it wouldn't hurt to have it available for export to stubborn Autocad users too).

The problem surfaces first when you let the BYLAYER pen/color/weight system rule you. So inflexible, so complicating your work, and expanding the number of layers totally out of proportion.

But used with caution and consciousness, OK!
AC4.1-AC26SWE; MacOS13.5.1; MP5,1+MBP16,1
Mats_Knutsson
Advisor
JP-Design wrote:
AC layers need visual help. Period. I've yet to hear from anyone otherwise on either side of the globe, except in these AC -related forums.
Just a late Friday comment. When I have AC classes all my pupils come from ACAD. I have never experienced any problems whatsoever with understanding the way layer works in AC or working with layers!? Sub-menus...where??? Set-up?? Don't you have a localized AC for your market? Setting up things is just boring work and should be done by someone else...😉

Glad you like it in the end because no matter how a certain feature appear to work it's all about workflow.

Off for week-end.

Cheers
AC 25 SWE Full

HP Zbook Fury 15,6 G8. 32 GB RAM. Nvidia RTX A3000.
Anonymous
Not applicable
I was trying to find a different post of mine (someone answered a question I had and I forgot to do it enough times to get it locked in my memory)...and stumbled back here...

The more I use the layering system in AC, the more I love it.
It's not the first thing I learned how to use- and the people I meet in the field who use AC also had the same issues coming as most of them did, from autocad, the industry competition-standard.
Setting it up with defaults in the company profile, or something... I might have missed something (probably) or simply am ignorant on this part of AC, but it took me about 6 months to really begin to understand, in daily use, how sophisticated and customizable the AC layering system CAN be.

So I love it now.
Anonymous
Not applicable
I have been using both AC and ACAD for 14 years. /To be honest I tried to avoid ACAD for the last 4! / I find AC layer structure and organization since v10 far superior to ACAD's!
There is only one thing I miss from it - the ability to switch on/off and freeze/unfreeze directly from the toolbars! I have always wondered why I could not change the layer state from the info Box!?!
If you are used to Express Tools in ACAD you should try Quick Layers, which offer the same commands for layers and more!

As for the number of layers - here is my layer list for a residential house - a single file for all architectural drawings and complete 3D model plus reference geodesy survey. The names are a mixture of English and Bulgarian, because AC still does not handle Cyrillic well.
Michael
Contributor
How many layers are in the National CADD Standard?

When BIM is fully implemented what is the ideal layer number? Does it not want to match the "National" (or International) CADD - layer- standard ?

It goes beyond the architecture mep and civil disciplines, yes?
Michael |:-)
AC 4.5 - 19 Build 3003 Full USA
Mac OSX 10.10
For medium/larger projects I favor a lot of layers, and because I don't see the benefit of maintaining more than one template I end up using the same setup for tiny projects:
- 'show-' and 'hide-' in floor plan layers for construction/model elements (walls, columns, stairs, elevators, casework, etc.);
- 'annotation', 'dimensions',' 2D' and 'presentation'/entourage/eye-candy, where needed, for each view type (key plan, neighborhood plan, site plan, plan, enlarged plan, reflected ceiling plan, casework plan, equipment plan, finish plan, furniture plan, code analysis plans, fire prevention plan, curtain wall/window assemblies systems drawings, details, renderings/animations, 3D prints, backgrounds for consultants);
- needed for remodels only, although some often end up needed for drawings of existing conditions: 'demo', 'existing' and 'new' for shell and infill construction elements, 'demo' and 'new' for annotation/dimension elements. This assumes that in a remodel you start out with a model of the existing building, and as the design evolves elements go from the 'exst' to the 'demo' layers and back, and also that you will be getting additional survey data during the design process, so that both the existing and new model, and demo and new drawings, will be evolving accordingly.

Add a few exterior/landscaping, MPE, civil discipline layers and you quickly get to 300+ layers this way. But if you have your views and typical elements as favorites or toolkit modules or palette files from where you copy paste your stuff, you rarely need to scroll through a layer list.

It is easy to start a larger project with less layers, but whenever I looked at finished projects that started out with less layers it turns out that by the time they finished it they had created pretty much all those layers, haphazardly etc., with view setups on the go and unnecessary teamwork/attribute coordination pain etc. I'd rather have everything set up from the start and perhaps not use 50% than start out lean and have to create a bunch of layers and views as I go, the project alone is normally more than enough of a problem.
Anonymous
Not applicable
Michael wrote:
How many layers are in the National CADD Standard?

When BIM is fully implemented what is the ideal layer number? Does it not want to match the "National" (or International) CADD - layer- standard ?

It goes beyond the architecture mep and civil disciplines, yes?
There is no ideal number of layers. Each firm should chose what works best for them. Questions of how many to use, how far to follow published standards, etc. are matters to be resolved according to the particular needs of each practice.

Neither Revit nor Microstation use layers, Vectorworks as I recall uses categories and the IFC is organized in classes. I have argued (and will continue to argue) that "layer" is the wrong metaphor for organizing the building model and would like to see ArchiCAD adopt a better terminology (I favor "classes").

I wouldn't worry about the large or long term implications of layer standards. Just use what works for now and change when necessary.
Arcadia
Booster
I make do perfectly with around 60 layers but then I do small commercial and medium to large residential stuff so the complexity is not high. I set up my own template and set-up my layers initially the same as I had them in my old 2D package and then added in layers as I needed to accomodate the different features of working in 3D. I find the layer system in AC fantastic.
V12-V27, PC: Ryzen 9 3950X, 64g RAM, RTX5000, Win 11