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Experience with Stairbuilder

Erich
Contributor
OK, as I become disillusioned with ArchiCAD stairs, I have a question along similar lines to Don Lee's post about ArchiStair http://archicad-talk.graphisoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=29795

What are folk's experience with Stairbuilder from Cadimage? Can it handle a traditional stair with volutes and goose necks, etc? What do you find its limitations to be? What do you like about it?
Erich

AC 19 6006 & AC 20
Mac OS 10.11.5
15" Retina MacBook Pro 2.6
27" iMac Retina 5K
21 REPLIES 21
Anonymous
Not applicable
And the Cadimage response?
Anonymous
Not applicable
sdb wrote:
"i will upload a couple of screenshots shortly."
Any chance of that anytime soon?
Sure would like to hear Cadimage's or someones response.
Still undecided.
lec
Dave Jochum
Advocate
Just found this thread. I used both StairBuilder and ArchiStair with AC 10 and 11, but didn't upgrade either to AC 12. Now with 13 I need to make the move. I liked ArchiStair better at the time--mainly for ease of use reasons. Sorry I can't be anymore definitive than that as it's been nearly 2 years since I used them and the mind is foggy. This thread died out before it really got started. I'd like to hear more opinions if anyone has them. Did you take the plunge on either, lec?
Dave Jochum
J o c h u m A R C H I T E C T S http://www.jochumarchitects.com
MBP 16" (M1 Max) 64 GB•OS 13.5.2•AC 27 Silicon (latest build)
Anonymous
Not applicable
Hi Dave
No, I Really Really, don't want another "dongle" to manage.
I've been waiting for a comparison between the two by someone else or response from Cadimage which has not been posted yet.
I've just finished a test stair concept, suggested by Steve Jepson here:
http://archicad-talk.graphisoft.com/viewtopic.php?p=153283&highlight=stairs#153283

For the test I revisited a double winder stair I had simply "slabified" when frustrated with AC stair almost two years ago.
I'm slow, so can't judge by this, but it took me way too long (around 4hrs) on this first set of double residential winders that are to be carpeted making the stair parts, plywood pieces etc so that I have a close "how it's constructed" model. (Would like to get this down to an 1hr someday).
I’m trying to learn a working style that what I model can be cut almost anywhere and be true to structural. Steve’s concept struck a cord there for me.
I did not worry this first one, how long it took or parts joining in section, which some did.
Also complicating things, (and the reason I chose this stair) was that I had cut both inside corners of the double winder to 45 degrees. This was in part to make it easier to get furniture up and around two corners, of a narrow, 36" stair, but also helped to get 6” min tread width.
Of course this made making the parts more complicated.

One of the main time sinks was I couldn't get different roof framing parts to completely SEO when trying to use them as stringers. Some of the treads would cut the stringer but others would not.
I ended up using "roofs" as stringers and that work almost flawlessly, except:
I wish there was a way to get parts to SEO sideways (left/right) not just up or down.
(I could put a “block” there and SEOed the piece I wanted gone and put block on hidden layer.) Maybe next structural test stair.
Am I missing something about sideways SEOing if wanted?
If anybodies got some tips on this I would like to hear them.
lec
ps
Maybe GS could modify/adopt concepts from curtain wall tool to a structural stair tool?
Ralph?
Dave Jochum
Advocate
My requirements are a bit different. I'm most interested in 1) Flexibility in plan view (that is, the ability to show any conceivable stair design and show it professionally. Not only is Stair Maker extremely limited in its design abilities, the results look very amateurish in plan, requiring 2D work to clean up), 2) Ability to show detail in elevation (which would require great flexibility in rail design), and very distant 3) Accuracy in section view.

Would sure like to hear from experienced users of StairBuilder and ArchiStair!
Dave Jochum
J o c h u m A R C H I T E C T S http://www.jochumarchitects.com
MBP 16" (M1 Max) 64 GB•OS 13.5.2•AC 27 Silicon (latest build)
Brett Brown
Advocate
Dave wrote:
I liked ArchiStair better at the time--mainly for ease of use reasons.


Nothing changed with Stairbuilder in useability, it has got worse in my opinion. The opposite can be said for Archistair2. It has got even better than Archistair1. Both have numerous video's on the new versions, and both have demo's. You can't beat hands on use, to build examples of what you need, before buying. There's also a discussion here on Archistair2 somewhere.
Imac, Big Sur AC 20 NZ, AC 25 Solo UKI,
Erich
Contributor
As the perpetrator of this thread I wanted to add my 2 cents. I downloaded demos of both add-ons to play with them and see just what they can do.

I really want to like the Cadimage product. I like the idea of working in plan rather than dialogs. I like the idea of adding sections of stairs together or spliting them or bending them as need be to fit the situation. They don't use a dongle! They have a great sale going on right now. I really want to like the product. Unfortunately the brutal truth is that the display does not meet my firm's need in plan or elevation or 3D. We do high end residential work and demand a lot of detail that I did not feel I could achieve. This may be due to may lack of experience with the add-on but that did not seem to be the case.

I was surprised by the Archistair2 add-on. Looking at screen shots and video on the web the interface looked confusing and cartoonish. In reality it seemed fairly clear and functional. The flexibility seems quite good (I am using the demo so I don't have full access to some features such as custom balusters, railings, first steps, etc.). I am quite sad that it uses a dongle, but I felt that way with ArchiCAD when I first started using the program (I am over that now) so perhaps this will pass.

The end result of my testing is that neither add-on is perfect for my needs. However, both add-ons are much better than the tools built into out program of choice. I encountered a few bugs in both products but none that I did not feel I could not overcome. In the end I realize that it is very unlikely that I would find any stair tool that fit all of my needs. Stairs are so complex and have so much variation that really prevent this. However, I think that the Archistair2 add-on gets reasonably close. Now to get my boss to cough up some money...
Erich

AC 19 6006 & AC 20
Mac OS 10.11.5
15" Retina MacBook Pro 2.6
27" iMac Retina 5K
Anonymous
Not applicable
Thanks Erich for the time invested in what appears to be a honest balanced attempt at a reasonably detailed evaluation of both.

Could Cadimage please respond to:
"We do high end residential work and demand a lot of detail that I did not feel I could achieve. This may be due to may lack of experience with the add-on but that did not seem to be the case"?

And especially a response to:
"I am using the demo so I don't have full access to some features such as custom balusters, railings, first steps, etc."
This is very important. Cigraph or full version user, could you please respond?
(edited to correct my mistake).
lec
Erich
Contributor
Lec,

My observations with respect to detail had to do with the level of detail of the volute included with Stairbuilder, the lack of trims (coves, nosings, etc.), no apron trim, limited selection of railing styles, etc. To be fair, Archistair lacks some of these details as well. I suspect that in order to model to the level i would like I will be building may stairs piece by piece of doing a bunch of line work to get the interiors to look right. I hope to find a tool that will take care of the more basic conditions with greater ease. I think that both of these tools would accomplish that but that Cigraph does so better for my needs.

The comment about the demo not including full features, was directed towards the Cigraph product not Cadimage. It was not a complaint, as this is how Cigraph chooses to provide the demo and they are quite clear about this, but more just noting that I could not test these features. Users of the licensed version would have full access to these features. From the demo you get a feeling for how this might work even though you cannot use the features.

I choose to post my observations in hopes that they might be of use to someone else. But both demos are easily obtained from Cadimage and Cigraph respectively. I would urge anyone looking for an alternative to the stair tool that ship with AC to try them out as my experience, expectations, and feelings my not match yours. Both products have a very short learning curve for the basics.

Cheers.
Erich

AC 19 6006 & AC 20
Mac OS 10.11.5
15" Retina MacBook Pro 2.6
27" iMac Retina 5K
Anonymous
Not applicable
Erich; you sure are right:
"The comment about the demo not including full features, was directed towards the Cigraph product not Cadimage."
OOOPPPSSS
I screwed that up. I'll now go back and correct comment to ask Cigraph or full version user that question.
I did not think you were being critical at all.
Your comment;
"I suspect that in order to model to the level i would like I will be building may stairs piece by piece..."
For now it seems, my point exactly.

As you know, stairs can get very complicated for such a small area of the building they occupy. And the code is getting tougher all the time.
Plus they can't squeak. So unless you want to "babysit" the builder, or look inept, you've got to have all the structural and trim stuff spelled out.
Not an easy task, especially for stairs of anything but straight.
lec
ps
At the risk of repeating myself.
What do you "gdl-gurus" think of retooling the curtain wall tool to be a structural stair tool?