Turn Plaster in Wallhole / Windows / Doors

Anonymous · ‎2010-01-17

Hello everyone,

I have a common brick wall plastered on both sides. Whenever I insert a wall hole, window or door i can't make the plaster cover the tops (something like wall ends!). I know there's a turn plaster option but it seems to me it's only related to cavity walls.
I know this probably is something very simple i'm missing but any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance

Geoff Briggs · ‎2010-01-20

I too just now, after all these years, realized that turning plaster is nothing but a stupid 2D hack, probably because I usually use wood cased openings. Currently there is no good way to model plaster/drywall lined openings or drywall returns. Since there are some of these on every project we do I am really disappointed. We really really need a solution for this!

Regards,
Geoff Briggs
I & I Design, Seattle, USA
AC7-27, M1 Mac, OS 14.x

ztaskai · ‎2010-01-21

First of all, turned plasters and wall skins aren't patches or 2D hacks since AC11. Since then they actually cut the wall and extend the wall polygon as needed.

Turning plasters in 3D is a long time wish and it is addressed in AC14. The current 2D functionality will be available in 3D and in S/E.

I'm not sure though that we know the real life situations of US drywall planning. Could you please post a few close-up pictures of the 2D and section drawing of the mounting of such a window?

Thanks!

Zsolt Táskai
ArchiCAD Development - GDL Team
AC13, AC14 and upwards...

Anonymous · ‎2010-01-21

Hello ztaskai,

First of all let me thank you for you explanation and tell you that I'm happy this situation will be addressed in AC 14.

Still, even if the plaster issue is resolved, the symbolic representation (and this is the reason I thought it was a 2D patch) in plan view doesn't match the wooden framed door with the glass panel as in projected/overhead, It doesn't even give you the possibility to show the fittings (for ex. handles) as in projected. It really should represent what is there or this could lead to error. Drawings are still the architect's main communication vehicle and should be precise.

Why cant this be solved with the projected in floor plan display instead?

Cheers

ztaskai · ‎2010-01-21

Yes, we don't consider that a symbolic representation. It could be a valid request though. We just never heard of any national standard that represents door glazing with actual size in the 1:50, 1:100 scales. The only similar standard we know of is the Chinese: they represent glazed doors with lines perpendicular to the door leaf.

Can you please tell us about this representation system you're using? Is there any related material online?

Thanks!

Zsolt Táskai
ArchiCAD Development - GDL Team
AC13, AC14 and upwards...

Anonymous · ‎2010-01-21

Hi again ztaskai,

Just to be clear, I was refering to the glazing outline not displaying in floor plan view and not it's representation as fill type (in Portugal and probably only in 1:1 and 1:2 scales we represent it as continuous parallel lines along the glazing)

Note that in Portugal (even Spain or Switzerland that I know of) it's quite common to represent these glazing outlines (not fills) in doors in 1:50, but standard representation can go up to 1:20 (this type of scale can reduce a substantial amount of drawings) in many cases, depending on the project's size. The point in this specific case is that the glazing outline is missing in floor plan display if you set it up to display as symbolic, just in section view (as represented in door nr.1 from the pdf file previously attached) it is showing.

One thing that's standard here (and you must be very careful with that so that the contractor does't catch these kind of glitches or you're in for a fight!) is that plan, section and elevation must be coherent and if you're aiming at the degree of detail that's present in section views, a plan view must have the same representation. Note that in plan views you're already representing the thickness of plaster which can be thinner than the glazing outline. If you're representing it in section what's the point of not doing so in plan view? At least it could be given that option don't you agree?

For some information on common practice in representation in Portugal you could take a look at El Croquis (a quite detailed spanish architectural magazine sold worldwide - here's the link: www.elcroquis.es) on Álvaro Siza Vieira or Eduardo Souto de Moura.

Hope to have contributed to something here and waiting to hear your opinion.

Sorry for the long post and thank you very much for your availability.

Geoff Briggs · ‎2010-01-22

Zsolt, I too am heartened to hear that turned skins will get some love next go round. And sorry, maybe "stupid 2D hack" is a little harsh. But anytime something displays in plan that is not there in 3D you have to expect some harsh words.

With regard to US drywall, I don't think there are any mysteries. What we need most is a good way to do drywalled openings, and ceilings, that are correct in all views and work with PSD. Right now my workaround is to use a surface slider with no panel for the opening and slabs for the ceilings. But there are all manner of unwanted lines at the joints, plan and 3D.

Regards,
Geoff Briggs
I & I Design, Seattle, USA
AC7-27, M1 Mac, OS 14.x

Anonymous · ‎2011-04-15

Wall plaster wrap in 3d appears as an option in archicad 14 windows, but once checked this option nothing happens, what am i doing wrong.

I need to model walls with complex profiles (for rendering issues), this ones are composed by a solid brick wall, 5 cm of air space and a outer skin. I need this outer skin to wrap into window holes but i cant make this happen, anyone has any ideas of what am i doing wrong?

Thanks in advance.

Turn Plaster in Wallhole / Windows / Doors

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