Shift to a subscription model - your questions are welcome

[Akos Pfemeter]

Dear Community,

You may have already read the press release or the Insights post about our strategic shift to a subscription model. 

Here is a quick summary of the news:

BUDAPEST, April 2, 2024—Graphisoft, the leading Building Information Modeling (BIM) software solution developer for architecture and multidisciplinary design, today announced that, as part of its strategic shift to a sustainable subscription software delivery model, perpetual licenses will be gradually phased out by the end of 2025. This change does not affect the delivery of Software Service Agreement (SSA)/Forward subscription services to existing customers. 

Archicad perpetual and SSA/Forward licenses will be available for new customers through December 31, 2024, and to existing customers through December 31, 2025. Starting in 2026, Archicad will be available only through subscription. Active SSA/Forward contracts will continue to be serviced beyond 2025. Alternatively, SSA/Forward customers can convert to Archicad Collaborate subscriptions at the same price as SSA/Forward. This offer is designed to help existing SSA/Forward subscribers take full advantage of the Archicad Collaborate subscription, which combines award-winning Archicad for architectural design with BIMx and BIMcloud SaaS for fast, efficient, secure, real-time access to shared projects.

Please ask your questions and share your thoughts here -- Graphisoft's expert team will try and provide answer to all sorts of questions you may have!
Thank you.
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Edit by Moderator:  here is the link to the evolving information/FAQ page about this announcement:

https://graphisoft.com/convert-ssa-forward-to-archicad-collaborate/faq

[Barry Kelly]

So, that shows that Archicad Subscription is the same cost as Archicad + BIMCloud.

Which is exactly what the subscription is ... Archicad + BIMCloud + BIMx

No big increase in price.

Or is that something you have mocked up as what you would like?

Barry.

[Mjules]

I currently pay lower than that for perpetual license + SSA, and those subscription prices scare me a lot.

[Scraptrash]

The functions in my SSA is more or less same as Archicad Subscription tier. I’ve checked my local GS website and it’s true that Archicad Subscription pricing is 3x of my current SSA. 
I don’t need the additional functionalities in the archicad collaborate tier. 

so it is 3x price hike!

[Barry Kelly]

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@Scraptrash wrote:

At the end of the day, it’s all about the pricing. I certainly don’t mind they force me to subscription if it only costs me €10 per month.

The funny thing about GS is, they keep updating the FAQ and still cannot tell my local sales rep the new pricing. 

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Firstly no-one is forcing you to do anything.

You can stay with the SSA/Forward support if you want.

Secondly, there is no new pricing.

If you decide to take out the subscription for 3 years (up front payout), you will get it for the same as you are paying now for SSA.

Or I believe you can subscribe yearly with a 10% extra cost if you don't want to pay out the 3 years in one go.

I don't think you will have any luck from any company if you want to know the future costs in the years to come.

All we can work on is what we have now.

Barry.

[Scraptrash]

So the archicad collaborate price is about 3 times of SSA I’m current paying yearly. 
so GS is increasing price by 3 times, plus no more perpetual license. Oh that’s a huge price hike! Much worse than Autodesk!

So changing to subscription model is a mis-direction (a magic trick I learnt from Netflix recently). The real thing is 3x price hike!

[Barry Kelly]

If you don't need the collaboration, don't switch to subscription.

Stay on SSA.

Sure there is no guarantee that SSA prices will not increase, but then I bet the subscription does as well.

If it all gets to expensive for the value you get out of it, then stop the support payments and you will still have your Archicad at the version when you stop payments.

Barry.

[Scraptrash]

With this pricing, I probably would stay in SSA for 3 more years, get the perpetual license for AC29(?), then decide to jump into AC30 subscription or not. That’s becoming clear. 

But still I need to wait for local sales rep to confirm their latest offering. 

The point I want to make plain and clear is, GS is announcing a 3x price hike & killing perpetual license to SSA subscribers. This should be a factual background we should all know.

[Barry Kelly]

There is no 3x price hike.

With a subscription, you do not pay the up front 10000+ for the license and then the yearly SSA support on top.

You are effectively renting Archicad and BIMCloud.

SSA is cheaper because you have already paid for the license.

There is nothing to say you can not stay on SSA for more than 3 years.

You just won't be able to by a new license in future - then you will have to take out a subscription if you need any more.

Barry.

[mthd]

That’s what most of us here understand about how subscriptions will affect ongoing pricing and upgrades to future versions. 

Just read the fine print on our contracts when they issue them to us, no matter what option we choose for our business going forward.

Graphisoft’s terms and conditions seem to be quite different to other 3D/CAD/BIM software subscription services ???

More clarification regarding stopping a subscription conversion down the track and returning back to a license needs to be made transparent for all of us.

We will just have to wait and see what transpires. 

[torben_wadlinger]

Here is a joint paper of four european organisations for fair business priciples between software companies and users.

https://www.beltug.be/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/2022.10.06-11-fair-principles-BELTUG-CIGREF-CIOPLAT...

These four organisations have filed a motion to the EU Comission to check the new licensing conditions of Broadcom and it's product VMware (no perpetual licenses any more, only subscription, similar to Nemetschek).

https://ciso.economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/grc/broadcom-questioned-by-eu-over-vmware-licensing-c...

https://www.beltug.be/impact-item/business-users-of-it-strongly-condemn-market-behaviour-of-broadcom...

[Francois_MCD]

Participating & following this conversation have been very insightful, despite unanswered questions still hanging in the air.

@Barry Kelly thanks for your valiant effort here supporting the community & keeping it "level headed"! 👊

This is a summary of my understanding at this time:

I went to http://store.graphisoft.com: options are...

• Archicad Collaborate Subscription monthly = 3.83 x my current SSA
• Archicad Collaborate Subscription 1 Year (upfront) ÷ 12 = monthly 2.26 x my current SSA/month
• Archicad Collaborate Subscription 2 Year (upfront) ÷ 12 = monthly 2.14 x my current SSA/month
• Archicad Collaborate Subscription 3 Year (upfront) ÷ 12 = monthly 2 x my current SSA/month

These all include 1 seat license for: Archicad, BIMcloud SaaS & BIMx Pro

A (new Perpetual v27 + BIMcloud Basic license + SSA*) "X" + (BIMcloud SaaS) "Y" x 12 (1 Year) cost = "Z" in my currency:

• "Z" ÷ 12 (1 Year) = 1.62 x Archicad Collaborate Subscription monthly
• "Z" ÷ 12 (1 Year) = 2.75 x Archicad Collaborate Subscription 1 Year calculated monthly
• "Z" + Year 2 SSA* (2 Years) ÷ 24 = 1.68 x Archicad Collaborate Subscription 1 Year calculated monthly
• "Z" + Year 3 SSA* (3 Years) ÷ 36 = 1.35 x Archicad Collaborate Subscription 1 Year calculated monthly

Note: * the Perpetual calculation is based on SSA not increasing.

From this we see what the options look like for existing users on Perpetual licenses looking to buy additional licenses. It is clear that the Archicad Collaborate Subscriptions are good value options in this cases. New users can only take Collaborate Subscription, so no difference for them.

Where it gets tricky is for existing Perpetual license holders considering to convert their Perpetual licenses to the subscription model.

1. After paying an upfront lumpsum for our Archicad + BIMcloud Basic licenses, our ongoing cost have been the SSA fee, essentially pre-paying for the upgrade to the next version (and some support services & preferential rates on Learn & access to exclusive tools). And remember this excludes BIMcloud "Pro" on premise / SaaS.
   > So switching to Subscription in real terms, actually does mean a higher fee to budget for, compared to current SSA.
2. What bugs many / most existing Perpetual license holders in this conversation that it seems Graphisoft's subscription pricing does not consider the long term commitment made by these users. What I mean here is, the only way to get the subscription at the offered discount rates is to pay upfront.
   > Affordability is a real problem here for many users. Those that can't afford to pay min. 3 years upfront will pay more for subscription than they have been paying for SSA/Forward).
   > Users will also RE-pay for their licenses exactly the same as new users & the discount also is the same for everyone. From this perspective, it is a loss to long term users that can not be ignored.
3. A few practical things that are unclear is:
   Say we convert to or even new users working with Collaborate Subscription (Archicad + BIMcloud SaaS + BIMx Pro):
   > Is BIMcloud "Pro" on premise available in this subscription? If yes, will it be at extra cost or not?
   > Will project files done on BIMcloud SaaS be accessible as .PLNs on local computer / server with a Perpetual license?
   > If a user's subscription lapses / are terminated, will project files done on BIMcloud SaaS be accessible as .PLNs on local computer / server as demo mode and/or be usable with any Perpetual license?
   (Is access to a user's project files secured or will there be scenarios where a user will lose access to the Archicad project files, no matter the version? - as it has been in Archicad since the beginning).
   > Will Archicad + BIMcloud Basic + BIMx remain as the base Perpetual license package and maintained on future versions?
4. Add to "3" here, the total lack of clarity as to how Perpetual licenses will work (access, availability - ignoring cost), the decisions really becomes extremely difficult to navigate.

> Any chance we can get some answers?

I believe these (and others raised here) are real concerns that could impact our practices directly, concerns that can not responsibly be ignored by anyone in professional practice (let alone legal liabilities we face with clients & our professional bodies). 

Everything considered, change is unavoidable in innovation (yes) and the unknown can be scary (for sure), but I can see the value in these changes on Graphisoft's side & us (the user's) side in the long term. Yes, we have choices and for some it will be more difficult than for others. It will be a real sad day for anyone to have to leave the Graphisoft & Archicad community by whatever factor, a community we are proud to be members of. As long as Graphisoft have answers and can assist users to transition (accepting the change) in a way that works for both them & us, it will all work out in the end.

[Scraptrash]

Thanks for your detail pricing study. 

My case is more or less your first case. I am on SSA with perpetual license, not needing BIMx pro & BIMcloud (pro) and BIMCloud SaaS. 

On my local store, the comparable option is Archicad Subscription which is the same price as Archicad Collaborate. Either option, as of today’s pricing, the money that will leave my bank to GS starting 3 years from now, will be around 3 times of what I would pay for SSA. Also, I don’t have the option to pay for more than 1 year subscription in my local store to get some discounts. 

Of course, with 3 times the cost, i get BIMx pro & BIMcloud SaaS, which is not too bad. But I no longer have the cheaper option just getting archicad license. 

[Barry Kelly]

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@Scraptrash wrote:

Either option, as of today’s pricing, the money that will leave my bank to GS starting 3 years from now, will be around 3 times of what I would pay for SSA.

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No it wont.

That price is for a new license, you already have yours.

You will still be paying the current SSA after 3 years (of course with "cost of living" increases to the fees).

You will not need to pay the subscription price for Collaboration package or Archicad itself.

You will continue to pay the lesser SSA fees.

Barry.

[Miha_M]

Shift to a subscription model - your questions are welcome

...but we don't have all the answers and never will.

So it seems. Or will we get more clarification and when?

[Bricklyne Clarence]

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@Miha_M wrote:

Shift to a subscription model - your questions are welcome

...but we don't have all the answers and never will.

So it seems. Or will we get more clarification and when?

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It's almost like it was a bad idea to go the FAQ route after promising to have answers avaliable from your "experts" for any questions that people might have.

Especially given that an FAQ can't anticipate the diversity of questions that need responses from people nor respond to follow-up questions

Either that, or it was in bad taste over something so critical and vital concerning people's financial states of well-being as pertains to their firms and professional futures.

Anywho, it could have been worse,.....

It could have been the weekend and you might have gotten a lecture about not interrupting them from enjoying their weekend.

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@Miha_M wrote:

Shift to a subscription model - your questions are welcome

...but we don't have all the answers and never will.

So it seems. Or will we get more clarification and when?

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[Richard Yewchuk]

I think customers should be asked to vote on this issue: Do you want to eliminate perpetual licenses and go to subscription only or would you prefer Graphisoft keep offering perpetual licenses along side of subscriptions so that customers can choose for themselves which option they would prefer  for buying Archicad software. 

[lparke]

What are Graphisoft's plan to support continued development of BimCloud Basic?  For those of us on SSA that are successfully using BimCloud Basic for teamwork projects I see no reason to 'upgrade' to subscription unless we are forced to use BimCloud SaaS. 

[Barry Kelly]

@lparke 

I am not Graphisoft, so I can not give an official answer.

But in a conversation I have had with them, there is no intention to stop BIMCloud basic (on premise).

But you may find that in the future, BIMCloud SaaS will have new features that are only available with the true cloud service, and it may then be beneficial to switch over - the choice will be yours.

But as I understand it, nobody is being forced to change.

Together with the other moderators, we are seeking clarification on the whole Collaboration Subscription deal.

I will try to get this BIMCloud on premise question clarified as well.

Barry.

[Bricklyne Clarence]

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@Barry Kelly wrote:

@lparke 

I am not Graphisoft, so I can not give an official answer.

But in a conversation I have had with them, there is no intention to stop BIMCloud basic (on premise).

But you may find that in the future, BIMCloud SaaS will have new features that are only available with the true cloud service, and it may then be beneficial to switch over - the choice will be yours.

......

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There was also no intention to shift to subscription-only, if I recall.

Or so we were told and assured not that long ago, and yet here we are today.

This is not a slam against you personally per se, but such is Graphisoft's credibility on this and any other issue, and that's how much their assurances are worth,  but they only have themselves to blame for this, and as I can see from this thread no lessons have been learned on their end.

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[Eduardo Rolon]

I was on the same conversation as @Barry Kelly and my take away is that we are back to square one.

Answers will be forthcoming to as many scenarios as possible.

• Existing Perpetual licenses will continue
• Buying new Perpetual licenses might stop at some point
• There will be no "forced" switch to subscription
• All TW/BimCloud will stay and work the same

[Bricklyne Clarence]

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@Eduardo Rolon wrote:

I was on the same conversation as @Barry Kelly and my take away is that we are back to square one.

Answers will be forthcoming to as many scenarios as possible.

• Existing Perpetual licenses will continue
• Buying new Perpetual licenses might stop at some point
• There will be no "forced" switch to subscription
• All TW/BimCloud will stay and work the same

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Now you see that gives me great pause.

On the one hand, you can claim there will be no "forced" switch to subscription, but if you create the conditions and a scenario that otherwise makes it untenable to not switch or less viable to stay out of subscription, then aren't you just forcing people to switch by default, only not so declaratively so?

Secondly,......"Buying new Perpetual licenses might stop at some point"....???????

"might"?

What's that supposed to mean?

Isn't that right there the crux of the issue, so much so that they shouldn't be playing word games and doing those kinds of rhetorical and semantics mental gymnastics?

And still no clarification on that TW/BIMCloud question.

Is a person on subscription still going to be able to 'collaborate' (another of those buzzwords they seem to love so much these days) with another colleague or team-member on TW or BIMCloud, who's still in a perpetual license and (therefore likely) still a version or more behind them?

I guess that's more of a technical question they still have to figure out on their end with the "1's" and "0's", but sadly for us we have to make these decisions sooner rather than later.

Also, thanks for the answers and the updating.

These are some of the questions we had been hoping and expecting the expert answers they promised us originally, and which ultimately expose the flaw of using their current FAQ system since, ........surprise!! surprise!!!,....it turns out questions often-times tend to spawn follow-up questions that need clarification themselves.